Is the gras greener on the other side!

[ktucker]

Can anyone answer me honestly?

I am thinking of relocating to Australia from South Africa. It is a very big decision to make and I do not want to make the wrong one. I have a baby girl of a few months old and she is my main reason for wanting to relocate.

At the moment South Africa is going downhill in every aspect. I have made a few enquiries on Australia, but it is easy to advertise Australia on the internet so as to attract people.

Is Australia a good place to live in, health wise, crime wise and housing and job wise?

Any honest response would be appreciated, preferably someone from a different country that relocated there and can talk from experience comparing the two countries!

[OneTime]

Hi Kevin, and welcome! :thumbs

I grew up in South Africa, lived in the UK for 7 years and have now been in Australia for 1.5 years. I've been back to South Africa pretty much once (sometimes twice) a year since I left, so I think I'm qualified to comment...

I tried to write this without going into a big essay, but there's no short answer... these are some thoughts in a nutshell, but there are plenty of sides to every story. This is me not trying to sell you anything about Aus, this is me saying it as I see it.

I would say, without hesitation, that life is very good in Australia. I always say that it has the blueprint for a perfect life, but you have to make it yourself, it doesn't just fall into your hands and it's not instant paradise as you get off the plane...


The safety - it's without a doubt a thousand times safer than South Africa. You can go about your daily life without being threatened and children actually play in the streets. Crime happens, but nowhere near on the scale of South Africa.



Jobs - there are more than enough jobs for everyone, regardless of colour. Plenty of career choices and plenty of opportunity. Discrimination based on race is just about unheard of. If you're prepared to do anything, you will not go jobless. Even the "lowest" jobs command some sort of respect.


Lifestyle - just like South Africa, Australia has the outdoor climate and outdoor lifestyle. Camping, surfing, sports, mountain biking, boating, fishing, you name it, it's all here and it's affordable. The great thing is you don't have to do it whilst looking over your shoulder.



Medical care - is world class and affordable. Basic medical care is free and medical aid is affordable for the average person.



Housing - If you have a job, chances are you can afford to rent a house of some sort. Period. In general the housing is similar to SA, but it varied by state, by city, by suburb and between new and old houses. There's something for everyone.


Like anywhere, there are negative aspects -


Red tape - it's sometimes difficult to get things done here because of all the paperwork. There are many rules to follow and there's a form to fill in for almost anything. The thing is, this is what makes the country a better, safer place to live because it's organised.



It's not South Africa - people make the mistake of thinking it's going to be "South Africa without the crime". It's not. You have to make it work, and you have to accept things, such as the culture, as they are. The people who thrive here are the ones that are prepared to "do as the Romans do".... the ones that don't are the ones that want everything to be like home...



You miss family and friends in South Africa. This one was, and still is, the hardest for me. Kids grow up without their grandparents and you miss your friends. A good life has a price.



Australia does have it's problems. Just like any other country, it has it's social problems - kids drinking, drug addicts, domestic violence, etc, but again, nowhere near on the scale of South Africa. It's the exception rather than the norm.


There is so much more I can tell you, I could go on forever... if you have any specific questions, fire away! :thumbs

[ktucker]

Thanks very much for your swift and honest reply!

I have also lived in the UK for 2 years and actually enjoyed it allot. Only negative was the wheather.

How is the cost of living? Can you do more with your avg salary in Australia compared to South Africa?

What part of Australia would you recommend as being the better to settle in?

Regards

[LongJohnny]

How is the cost of living? Can you do more with your avg salary in Australia compared to South Africa?
I'm a teacher and viewed from one angle, people would think that I'm wallowing in wealth, because my $69 000 pa salary translates into something like ZAR4000 000, give or take a fluctuation or two in the current exchange rate.
The fact is that Oz is a First World country and goods & services are on 1st World levels. For a family of 3 we fork out about $180 per week for groceries, about $70 per week for petrol.
Other yardsticks could be that a decent paiir of shoes in Oz could cost anything in the region of $100 and a nice computer deal may set you back about $1 500. How do thse figures translate into Rands in the current RSA?



What part of Australia would you recommend as being the better to settle in?
Hmm. You have me there. I live in Adelaide which is a good place to live, imagine Bloemfontein or Pietermaritzburg by the sea. Your best bet would be where you find a job the quickest. You may want to research some cities and pinpoint the availability of job ads in your line of work for specific centres.

Check out this article, it's a bit outdated but most aspects are still valid for Adelaide with the exception of things like petrol prices that are tied to inflation, for example.

http://www.greattrek.net/forum/showthread.php?t=185

Hope this help, give us a Hoy if you need more info.:grin


Cheers,


LJ

[OneTime]

Only a pleasure.

For me it's difficult to say when comparing standards of living because in SA I was mostly a poor student - I spent most of my working life in the UK.

I would say they average family in Australia definitely does better than the average family in SA in terms of cost of living to salary, but that being said - in South Africa there is a very big divide between rich and poor. In Aus, there's less of the poor and more of the middle ground.

As LJ says - you earn first world salaries but you spend first world money on goods.

Have a look here for a guide on cost of living - might help you to compare. http://www.greattrek.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3739

In terms of where to settle - where in South Africa is your favourite, in terms of climate, lifestyle, etc?

[Wannabe]

Ktucker, I can't answer any of your questions, as we are still in SA. I'd like to thank you for asking them though, because we all benefit from the answers.

One thing: We can't wait to go!!!

[ktucker]

Where in South Africa is your favourite, in terms of climate, lifestyle, etc?

Difficult one, major cities I prefer Cape Town and Bloemfontein.

[ktucker]

Are you guys working through immigration agents or doing it all on your own?

[Nyala]

Hi Kevin

I came over to Australia from Zimbabwe 7 years ago. My kids were 16 and 14 years old at the time and we left with our suitcases and $1500 Australian in our hands (just a bit over 1 weeks wages over here). We left everything that we'd ever know, as many of us do, to come to a place we'd never seen. We didn't have the resources at the time to do the Look-See-Decide trip - it was make or break for us.

Seven years later I have a new career, thanks to the adult education system, my husband is in middle-management at his company after starting on the bench 4 years ago- he now manages a factory of one of Australias primary transformer producers with branches all over Aus and the USA, my kids finished school with year 12 certs and uni education, I own a brand new car, we own our own home and a caravan with which we've travelled and camped all over Victoria and NSW.

These things were all pipe dreams to us in Zim as at that stage the economy was already so unstable that we were living month to month, we had a car but no fuel for it and were home tutoring our kids coz we couldn't afford the education.

This is not about blowing my trumpet but rather to show that with a "Do as the Romans do" attitude and good work ethics, you can make a good go if it here. And I need to add here that God has been abundant in His blessings to us.

If you come over prepared for a culture shock, it's definatley not Africa-across-the-sea, and lots of hard work, you can make the system work for you.

[ktucker]

Well you guys definetely left Zimbabwe at the right time, the country is almost beyond repair at this stage. The thing that worries me is that I am seeing the same things happenning in South Africa. To me it is only a matter of time before this country are in financial disaster.

Glad you mension God, he sure makes anything possible!

Glad things worked out for you guys.

God Bless!

[LongJohnny]

Where in South Africa is your favourite, in terms of climate, lifestyle, etc?

Difficult one, major cities I prefer Cape Town and Bloemfontein.


To compare South African cities with Australian cities in respect of climate can often be a bit tricky, but here goes in a nutshell.

(But keep in mind it’s based on my knowledge of the South African and Aussie cities that I mention.)

Canberra compares well with Johannesburg and Bloemforntein, maybe Pietermaritzburg as well, but not as humid as parts of Pietermaritzburg.


Adelaide, Perth & Melbourne are quite on par with Cape Town, especially Adelaide & Perth. Our experience of Adelaide is while we have most of our rain in winter, Adelaide does not have those strong winds (South Easter) and biting cold that is some characteristic of Cape Town in winter. Our summers sometimes are scorchers with temperatures in the high 30’s.


Sydney is much like Durban, although Sydney sometimes get a lot of winter rain as well.


Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville is the same as Richards Bay, Empangeni, Hluhluwe etc.

I really cannot fathom Darwin, but Alice Springs is a lot like Windhoek or maybe Grootfontein, if you are familiar with those places.

Hope it gives you an idea

LJ

[paulc]

Hi all,

From all the posts I can glean a number of salient points become apparent.

1: Your move needs to be an informed one. Luckily we have the Internet, and forums such as this.
2: You need to have the right frame of mind. For me, this is number one. I passed through a couple of Ozz cities on my way to Fiji last year to go and play golf, and the customs people were VERY rude. After I had calmed down, I can understand they are that way for 2 reasons: drugs and making sure you don't get ideas about trying to sneak in for a job. I then swore I would never move to Ozz. How short-sighted I was.

I am moving for many reasons, but crime etc are still the main ones. I realise I will give a great many things, but they are only of this world, not of God, so are only transient in any event.

3: Like anything, what you put in, is what you get out.

4: I am pretty sure the average Saffer can make it work in Ozz.

[OneTime]

Hi paul,

I think you're pretty spot on in your assumptions.

I wouldn't be too concerned that the customs officers are a picture of the general population at all. They have very strict orders on what to look out for and they spend most of their day scanning thousands of potential risks. You'll actually find that the average man on the street is quite friendly, and one thing that struck me is how many shop assistants will actually make conversation when you're standing at the till paying. ("How is your day so far?" or "Got any plans for the weekend?")

When you go walking or running around in the burbs, it's normal for strangers to greet each other as they pass. This happens more in the outer suburbs and smaller towns than the inner cities, obviously.

Frame of mind, and willingness to adapt are the most important tools you'll need. A lot of people arrive and can't handle the fact that nobody's interested in the rugby, or biltong, or that they prefer gas braais to charcoal. You just have to adapt. I braai with wood and charcoal with my South African friends, and on gas with my Aussie friends. I watch rugby with the South Afrians, and AFL with the Aussies. And sometimes the two sides meet.

I think you're right - any South African can make the move to Aus work - but only if they remove the blinkers. :thumbs

[LongJohnny]

Hi all,

I am moving for many reasons, but crime etc are still the main ones. I realise I will give a great many things, but they are only of this world, not of God, so are only transient in any event.



You have a point with the crime aspect. As people decide to leave RSA nowadays crime seems to be on the top of many people's lists.

Australia has it's fair share of crime as well, but be careful when you view the stats. There are some information that tends to skew the pictute overall, here's a few examples:

* You will see much publicity i.r.o. rape and child neglect. Keep in mind that most of this is applicable to Aboriginal lands that, without putting too fine a point to things, is somewhat removed from mainsream Austraia.

* In Adelaide there has been much publicity i.ro. child molestation. What happened was that some cases that have been swept under the carpet by some organisations for years (e.g. church sponsored orphanages) came to a point and then many people who were abused as children came forward with claims and evidence. I'm not singling bodies out here, but bodies like the Anglican Church were much at fault in this respect. However, these matters were addressed and VERY stringent sytems are in place to protect kids nowadays. Also, the casual observer may think that paedophilia is rife in Australia. Once again, not so. What is actually at work is that people are much better informed about these issues nowadays and due to recent publicity, it will remain a focus in the media for quite some time. (It also dawned on some parts of the community, e.g. politicians, that our kids are our most important asset and should be protected at all costs.)

* One sometimes hears of home invasions and people being attacked in their homes. To the uninitiated this seems like RSA all over again - not the case. What is at work here is mostly drug related issues, e.g. people manufacture drugs in their homes or grow marijuana (dagga) in their backyards. The next moment their competitors, rivals or freebooters move in and then there is :angry2: in the neighbourhood. The good news: :grin People who stay away from drugs, junkies, pushers, outlaw bikers etc. don't get into such strife.:whistle

* A real problem in Aus is with teenage drinking and hoon driving. In my opinion kids get driving licences (17 years) in most states way to early. Compare that with theold RSA where you had to turn 18 before you could go for your Learners, here in Oz kids can go for their Learners when they turn 16.

* The thing with drug issues here in Oz is that for a while now law enforcement agencies have been quite successful in combatting the import of drugs into Oz. So much so that pushers and junkies have to turn to other avenues or methods of supply, hench the widely reported drug manufactoring places in suburbia, people growing marijuana (dagga) in their ceilings etc.

So, keep in mind that crime in RSA and crime in Australia are very much like the proverbial oranges & apples. When you maybe hear about crime here in Oz don't stress - we have crime here, but it is dealt with quickly and efficiently.

Cheers,

LJ

[OneTime]

I agree LJ, amd you reminded me of something I was thinking of.

It seems that crime is all over the news at the moment in Australia and a few people who aren't sure about the move (and the emigration bashers like Beeld!) have commented on it as a reason not to come to Aus - because the crime rate might just be as bad.

It's nowhere near as bad.

Crime is most definitely on the increase - all over the world - BUT - in Australia your chances are still a tiny percentage of being affected than in SA. The reason crime is all over the news here is because people are not used to it, it's newsworthy and a public and police hunt for the guilty party usually follows. Just about every violent crime and murder is reported over here, unlike in South Africa, where the poor people are so used to it that a lot of the time it's not newsworthy anymore.

For every crime that is reported in Australia - I wonder how many of the same (worse?) crimes have gone un-reported in South Africa for the same period of time.

[Steve]

It's the same story here in the UK. There is much in the news about knife crime being "out of control" because 18 teenagers have been killed in London this year. While 18 kids dying is still unacceptable by anyone's standards, that sort of crime doesn't even make the local papers in SA - never mind the evening news.

On the other side of the coin, I was nearly stabbed this past Saturday evening buy a kid trying to nick stuff from my tent at the Henley Regatta. As it turns out, he had to drop the spike thing he was carrying to try and pick up my stuff. In the end he gave it legs and, we chased him and he dropped the rest of my stuff too. To be fair the kid was about 18 and the chasers were about 32 so he was always going to make it :) :) . That was the closest I had come to having anything stolen in the past 8 years and it was quite a shock actually. Rather different from having 3 cars (and lots of other things) stolen in the 4 years preceding my departure from SA.

So the bottom line IMO if you are leaving SA and you move to any country with a news channel then you will be faced with lots of stories about crime. In reality while SA is one of the most beautiful places on the planet it has one of the highest crime rates in the World and you are unlikely to find anywhere else like it.